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Deluxe Reverb Reissue
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davidge1



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:19 pm    Post subject: Deluxe Reverb Reissue Reply with quote

I'm trying to get something close to a Nashville West type of tone, using Deluxe Reverb Reissue and a 50s Classic Tele. I feel like I'm not even getting close, as the amp is extremely bright, even with the treble knob turned way down. I'm playing the amp loud (vol. at 7 to 10). The amp has the bright cap clipped, an upgraded speaker (Reverend All Tone) and NOS vintage tubes. Any suggestions?

Clarence White's tone on the Nashville West album is very warm... not trebly at all, yet it still has a musical Fender chime to it. I'd like to be able to tame the treble the way he obviously could, without it sounding muddy.
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Brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1360
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something doesn't sound right. Either the guitar or the amp treble shold be able to roll off the Treble. That said...Clarence probably used something like a Vibrolux or Super Reverb for club gigs. With Treble and Bass controls of the amp on about 6 and Voulme at 6 you should simply have to roll back your guitars Treble control about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way back from full Treble. If that doesn't do it somethings is definitely wrong with either the guitar or amp...
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Bob Warford



Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While playing at Nashville West in 1967, and also while playing at the Arena Room in Culver City in 1967 (both of those gigs with "The Roustabouts"), Clarence used a Vibrolux, with volume, bass, and treble all set on 7. Bright switch was off, as I recall.

I never knew him to use any amp other than that Vibrolux when playing in a club.

The guitar sound was the same as appears on "Nashville West" (at least the guitar sound when he was using the Sunburst Tele - the White Tele was a bit brighter).

Hope that helps...

Bob
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davidge1



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies! The info is very useful. I suppose it's not accurate to compare what you hear on a recording to what's coming out of your amp... it might have sounded a lot brighter live than what you hear on the album.

Someone suggested I use a different pickup (CS Nocaster) to fatten up my sound... I might try that. Rolling off the treble on my guitar never sounds good to me for some reason.
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Brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1360
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

davidge1 wrote:
Thanks for the replies! The info is very useful. I suppose it's not accurate to compare what you hear on a recording to what's coming out of your amp... it might have sounded a lot brighter live than what you hear on the album.

Someone suggested I use a different pickup (CS Nocaster) to fatten up my sound... I might try that. Rolling off the treble on my guitar never sounds good to me for some reason.


David...pickups can make a big difference. But when you roll off your Treble control on your Tele...doesn't it get more bassy? It should

BTW I have the same amp that Bob mentions and the tone I get sounds exactly like those Nashville West recordings.. You should be able to nail it with a Fender blackface style amp and Tele bridge pickup (set as mentioned above)
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Don Miller



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 238
Location: Anchorage, Alaska

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been using a DRRI with my Nashville West (w/ Velvet Hammers) Usually play in the "both -parallel" setting without the booster...get about everything from a jazzbox "whump" to great snap by moving the tone on the guitar. Amp treble at 5-6, bass at 3-4. I find I do need to play with the amp volume at 5-6 or it can get muddy...
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davidge1



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Brian... I'm going to try your suggestion the next time I rehearse. I've also raised my pickup so it's much closer to the strings, which seems to fatten it up some.
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Rick Towne



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:01 pm    Post subject: Memories! Reply with quote

Bob:

I often wonder why I seem to know the lyrics to every song I hear, even it's been decades since the last time I heard it. However, remembering tone settings from 1967 (other than say everything on "10") is truly awesome.

I agree that a Vibrolux or Deluxe with the right combination of amp and tone treble rolloff should work for this tone. I've had several of both over the years, and I can certainly get it now with my 1x12 2x6L6 Weber 12F150 Allen. You can also use some gentle Ross-type compression to help without guilt.



Bob Warford wrote:
While playing at Nashville West in 1967, and also while playing at the Arena Room in Culver City in 1967 (both of those gigs with "The Roustabouts"), Clarence used a Vibrolux, with volume, bass, and treble all set on 7. Bright switch was off, as I recall.

I never knew him to use any amp other than that Vibrolux when playing in a club.

The guitar sound was the same as appears on "Nashville West" (at least the guitar sound when he was using the Sunburst Tele - the White Tele was a bit brighter).

Hope that helps...

Bob
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denp986



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never felt as though I could nail the sweet tone of Clarence's or Bob Warford's. I will say that my old Vibrolux, cranked up, comes the closest. Both are great sounding amps, but comparing a deluxe to a vibrolux is like comparing apples and oranges.
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davidge1



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not trying to get exactly duplicate that tone, just get something similar... which I'd think you could probably do with any Fender amp.

But I solved my problem... The previous owner put in a Reverend Alltone speaker, which is brighter than a Jensen. I tried the amp with another speaker, and it was a huge difference. I'm probably going to buy a Jensen... the same one it comes stock with.

Thanks much to everyone who tried to help me out here!


Last edited by davidge1 on Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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davidge1



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to take back what I said about the Alltone speaker... while it is a little brighter than a Jensen, my amp had some other issues that was causing it to be excessively bright. I just had it gone over by a tech, who corrected some previous mods that had been done to it... now it sounds just the way it should. I haven't decided whether or not to keep the Alltone speaker in it... have to see how it works in a band context.

Thanks again, all...
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Brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1360
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What was it that the amp tech did? Was there an incorrect capacitor value installed somewhere?

It's difficult to find a good replacement speaker. Alot of modern speakers are more effcient than the ones from teh 60's but it takes away from the vintage town. Things like larger magnets and advanced cone designs...not good for vintage tone. I would talk to Weber and tell him if you are after vintage 60's tone on your Deluxe Reverb and see what he has to say. They cloned my original 1966 Jensen C10N speakers and did a great job. The standard catalog offering they had used larger magnets and different cone design and sounded nothing like my originals... The custom ones they did for me are great sounding..
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davidge1



Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way he explained it, the amp somehow had both channels connected to one another... this was causing the normal channel to short out sometimes and also causing the excessive brightness. He seemed puzzled as to why anyone would mod the amp this way, but he restored it to the way it was stock (minus the bright cap, which I didn't want connected anyway). The caps and tubes were fine.

I didn't know Weber would talk to someone who was interested in a speaker... thats good to know! The Jensen C12K is what Fender puts in these now... the one I tried sounded good in the store, but I'll try contacting Weber before I decide.
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Silverface



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 324
Location: Hermosa Beach CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realize that any new speaker will NOT sound the same in 6 months - they need to break in. I also suggest talking to Weber and tell them your "tone target". The Alltone, IMO, is a great choice for some but not for solving bright/no mids issues. It's a scooped-mid speaker, and handicaps you right out of the chute.

Another major issue - the DRRI will never sound close to a Vibrolux Reverb - the VR has lower voltages, less power, more mids and is a "different" Fender amp. In fact, the DRRI doesn't sound like a BF or SF Deluxe. It's a case of you can't get there from here. Some rave about them, but players who are really dialed-in as far as specific amp tones realize the reissues (although not BAD amps) do not sound like the originals.

If you want the more "raw", low-gain sound of a VR, here are a couple of ideas:

1. Try a 5751 or even a 12AY7 in the V2 socket. That alone can make quite a difference.
2. Change the Midrange resistor on the bass pot (a 6.8k) initially to a higher value - the resistor is like a midrange pot frozen in place. A decade box comes in handy, but I'd start with a 10k and work up from there.
3. Raise (double) the value of the negative feedback resistor that is connected to the wire off the ext speaker jack.
4. Definitely replace the speaker as noted. Please DO NOT get sucked into the "name game" and buy a new Jensen - they're not the same speakers and not the same company. You will need a LONG break in period at high volume...if you can ever get it to sound right.
5. You mention NOS power tubes - what kind, what's your plate voltage and what's the bias setting in uf (also, what rectifier are you using? If they are biased cold (which many techs do to save tube life) you'll never get the big, fat tone you're seeking. It's a very common problem - most techs assume you WANT a DR bright! IF the tech happened to set the bias based on negative voltage or the oscilloscope/crossover-notch distortion method have it rebiased by a NEW tech...while you're there...and have them ignore the settings and bias it based on YOUR ear (while playing and picking light - then digging in hard once in a while). Bias settings based on 'scope waves or math had diddly squat to do with tone.

There are many, many more things - but the one mentioned above - light picking - has NOTHING to do with the amp. If you are playing with the amp turned up to a low level and picking hard (or using a compressor) you're missing the whole Clarence "mystique". The key is cranking the amp - I mean to glass-shaking volume...and picking EXTREMELY light. You also HAVE to learn how to use your guitar's controls - if rolling off a little top-end sounds muddy you may have the wrong pickups, wrong tone cap, need to change pot values (1 meg pots can do wonders for mids when combined with .068uf tone caps) or just not get the interactive nature of all of those factors - each one changes the function of another.

You may need just a few setup changes and a more difficult adjustment in your playing to get there, but it'll be worth it.

But IMO the first thing I'd do is start looking for a beater Vibrolux Reverb or a used boutique clone (a Holland Little Jimi just nails that "round" sound with a little rawness and can be found used fairly inexpensively).
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Raybob



Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 98
Location: Kyburz, CA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silverface wrote:
...Another major issue - the DRRI will never sound close to a Vibrolux Reverb - the VR has lower voltages, less power, more mids and is a "different" Fender amp. In fact, the DRRI doesn't sound like a BF or SF Deluxe. It's a case of you can't get there from here. Some rave about them, but players who are really dialed-in as far as specific amp tones realize the reissues (although not BAD amps) do not sound like the originals...


Actually, the DRRI (65 Fender Deluxe Reverb) has 394v at plates compared to 415v of the BF Deluxe Reverb AB763 and 410v of the BF Vibrolux Reverb AA964. With my company, Tube-Tone Amplifiers, I recently rebuilt a DRRI into a BF AB763 circuit for a customer. He said the result was much fuller sound with much quieter idle noise. Here was a shot of before and after.

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