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Deluxe Reverb - Speaker Suggestion?
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Murr



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 384
Location: http://www.youtube.com/user/skydogz1

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reissues are a different animlal altogether.
Best amp I ever heard live was Warford's Vibrolux. I think Brian knows the mods it has.
'
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Brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1361
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, we have Bob's amp mods....but meatandpotatoes says he played a BF vibroVERB...those are the old rare BF amps that had the 15inch speaker...Stevie Ray Vaughan used those. The new re-Issue BF Vibroverb are very close....Silverface has one of those and he brought it to the CWf jams..
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Silverface



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 324
Location: Hermosa Beach CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have #3 of the BF Vibroverb Customs right off the NAMM floor....and I had an original '64.

The reissue is the ONE reissue they got right. Just don't flip the "SRV/CesarDiaz" switches and you have a '64 BF 'verb. It's astounding and has taken over as my #1 stage and home amp - to play it at home I simply crank the bias up to about 40ma with the JJ power tubes I installed (got rid of those terrible, fake, Boob Tubes "US made" GE 6L6's that are made in China with some US parts after a week). I use it with Teles, Les Pauls, pedal steel, lap steel....it kills with every single thing I plug into it.

But -

A DR is a MUST HAVE amp IMO. You absolutely cannot go wrong - Josh Grange is playing one as his STEEL amp on a KD Lang Tour, as it gets him that Lloyd Green "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere" edge-of-breakup that is fully under touch-control. I love my tweed, but it has limits - the Deluxe I can use anywhere and in larger halls I'll just stick a mic in front of it. Tweeds - both the wide-panel and narrow-panel - each have a singular, superb sound...but a DR is versatile and has a dozen different tonal possibilities (all good) depending on preamp/power tube combinations, speaker, and bias settings. You can pull the first preamp tube to give you more gain in the reverb channel, but use a 5751 or 12AY7 to bring it back down - it fattens up the sound in an amazing way (and is a trick not many players use). It also works great with 6L6 power tubes - ask Pete Anderson.

In fact, if I had TWO desert Island amps they'd be a DR and BF Vibroverb.
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meatandpotatas



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Location: The Great Northwest

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silverface, how do you feel about the Vibrolux Reverb compared to the DR/Pro/Vibroverb?

There's something about my '74 VR that doesn't sit right with me, at least as a primary amp. It's hard to explain in words, meaning I should probably bring it back to the shop, but it's as if the top-end doesn't bloom* the way my DR does, or the way that '64 Vibroverb did. I can turn the treble way up on guitar and amp, with the bass down to 3 or 4, and still can't dial out that compressed* quality. (*Hope I'm using these words properly.)

I guess I'm looking for more bell-like qualities, and the VR may be too midrangey. Not sure if this has to do with my amp/speakers, or if it's just the nature of a 2X10" amp. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of experience with other VR's or speakers to fall back on, lacking a good reference point.

Any thoughts?

BTW, I have one other DR question that may have been lost in the mix - do you guys like to keep the bright cap, remove it, or put it on some kind of push-pull pot?
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Silverface



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 324
Location: Hermosa Beach CA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stock VR (BF or SF...NOT the Custom Reissue) is a great amp IF you crank it all the way up and are a "touch" player - i.e you play really light most of the time, even when hitting chords or playing "stinging" leads - but then can dig in just a bit and get a little smooth breakup, or punch it and it'll roar.

But - for most players just using them turned up to "5" as a 35-watt Fender Reverb amp they sound a little anemic to me unless you bias 'em way on the hot side and eat tubes.

Honestly, I think they are one of the great amps of all time - IF you know how to use one. Many players expect a "small Twin" or the punch/power of a Pro Reverb or Super, and they don't have intentionally - they were designed as a lower-powered, cleaner-sounding amp.

Bob's isn't even a VR anymore - Red did so many mods on it it's a different animal altogether. S - if you have a good right hand touch, I think they are tremendous; if you don't vary your right hand much or rely on a compressor to even out your sound because you need to compensate a bit for lack of right hand dynamics (and many players do - nothing really wrong with it, just a different way of playing) a Pro Reverb or Super Reverb is probably a better choice.
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Brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1361
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record...these are the schematic mods that Red Rhodes made to Bob's Vibrolux Reverb. They are annotated on the below schematic in red. I personally identified these mods when Bob brought his amp to a CWf jam...prior to when most of the people arrived at the jam Bob and I dissassembled the chassis and photographically ID'd these mods which I annotated on the schematic below. They aren't as extensive as you'd think but they add functionality as follows:

1) Stock speakers replaced with JBL D110's (not annotated as a schematic change)
2) Master Volume pot added (pre-phase inverter type)
3) tube rectifier replaced with a couple of solid-state power diodes soldered directly to the empty rectifier tube socket
4) bypass capacitor mod made to the Reverb potentiomter wiper (value not noted at the time)
5) switchable 1M resistor in parallel with 3M resistor in the Reverb return mxing circuit
6) a diode clipping circuit added to the pull-switch on the added master volume control. Bob mentioned that in all the time he had the amp....he had no idea that that feature was there! Needless to say he doesn't use it...

I think the most sigificant mods to the amp are the speaker change and the solid-state rectifier mods. Those mods in themself make the amp tight and give it more clean headroom. The Master Volume is also very useful for Bob's use since he always uses a cranked LPB-1 clean booster external to the amp...which overdrives his Vibrolux Preamp...fattening up the tone and then uses the Master Volume to control the overall Volume

All of that aside...a stock Vibrolux reverb sounds great too... I have a 66 BF VR and it nails Clarence's Nashville West tone...I've been tempted to mod it but so far am happy with it the way it is..


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meatandpotatas



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Location: The Great Northwest

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice to see Bob's mods, although I probably wouldn't explore them myself, except possibly the high-efficiency speakers. The good thing, I guess, is I'm not familiar enough with Bob's tone to know what I should be chasing, so no worries! I'd rather leave my amps close to stock anyway, at least until I have the know-how to experiment with my own hands/ears, rather than my tech's ($$$).

Quote:
Silverface wrote:
if you have a good right hand touch, I think they are tremendous; if you don't vary your right hand much or rely on a compressor to even out your sound because you need to compensate a bit for lack of right hand dynamics (and many players do - nothing really wrong with it, just a different way of playing) a Pro Reverb or Super Reverb is probably a better choice.


Well, I wouldn't say I have great right hand touch, but I'm aware of RH dynamics, vary my pick attack quite a bit (mimicking CW, JB, etc.), and do NOT like compressors. But just like my left hand technique, the right hand is a continued work in progress. Even so, my Deluxe has far better response to dynamics, at least in a "clean" range, which is why I prefer it to the Vibrolux. If I turn up the VR, I can see what you're talking about, but it's probably a different sound than I'm looking for - it's more Roy Buchanan, less James Burton.

The Deluxe may be all I need, but if I go for something bigger, something like that '64 Vibroverb I played would be really cool. The same store also had a Bandmaster Reverb/1X15 combo (Vibroclone), which I've inquired about, and could go back to A/B with the '64. Otherwise, one of the '64 Custom RI's might be a fair trade for my Vibrolux, if I could find one locally.

On a side note, I've been able to play a few vintage Tweeds ('56 Bassman, '56 Bandmaster, '52 Pro), and some Victoria repros (Bassman, Twin, Victoriette 1X12) over the past couple weeks - the originals have been extremely "musical" amps, very warm, very inspiring, and very unaffordable, while the Vicky's have been somewhat sterile sounding at first impression. More importantly, even the originals are just too one-dimensional, as mentioned here - would be great if I had the money/space for a third amp, but not a good option right now.
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Murr



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 384
Location: http://www.youtube.com/user/skydogz1

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being obsessed with Clarence's sound made my amp decision a snap, thank God.
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