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Deluxe Reverb - Speaker Suggestion?
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meatandpotatas



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Location: The Great Northwest

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:27 am    Post subject: Deluxe Reverb - Speaker Suggestion? Reply with quote

My '73 SFDR has been sounding pretty weak lately, not to mention overly bright and pretty harsh when cranked. I'll be taking it in for general servicing this week, but I think it's time to dump the original Utah as well.

So what are my best options for a new speaker? I'm currently thinking a Weber California with the large screen "H" dome, whatever that is. Supposedly, it sounds warmer than the standard aluminum or paper domes. The other option is a vintage JBL D120F, if I can find one in good condition at a decent price.

I'd like to be able to cover the Bakersfield sound, including Don Rich and Roy Nichols territory, and with a particular favorite being James Burton's tones on Hag's "Branded Man" LP. I've read that JB used a '64 Deluxe (pre-reverb?) in the studio, with either a Lansing or JBL, so that's why I'm thinking along those lines for my '73. I'm also a fan of some of Jerry Garcia's early tones, like on Europe '72 (SF Twin + JBLs). If possible, I'd like to get enough headroom/volume/presence out of this amp to make it club-worthy, even if I have to mic it and/or run it through an extra cab. Right not, my '74 Vibrolux sounds bigger/louder, but I'm not sold on the 2x10 sound, so if I can get more out of the DR, I'd like to have the option of trading/selling the VR.

Anyway, I've already emailed Ted Weber, and he recommended a 25 watt 12F150. I was a little surprised by that, based on the tone I'm looking for, and his speaker descriptions, but he's the expert. I would think the Cali to be a better fit...

Any thoughts?


Thanks,
James
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getbent



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 116
Location: San Benito, CA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put calis in my sf twin and have been super happy. I play in a band that plays tons of hag and buck owens.... so, I, too, go for that sound....

I have no reason to doubt ted...

but, I am kinda thinking about putting JBL's in an amp here pretty quick as a couple of guys who I like their cleans are using them (jimmy wilsey)...
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Murr



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 384
Location: http://www.youtube.com/user/skydogz1

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6L6 amp such as Vibrolux or Twin Reverb might be the ticket.
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meatandpotatas



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Location: The Great Northwest

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getbent, thanks for the reply...since you play that stuff out, do you think I can get away with just the Deluxe? I'm assuming that I would need to mic it or run it through a good extension cab for mid-size clubs or bigger, but that's just speculation. I'm not playing out right now, but trying to plan for the not-too-distant future while I have a little cash on hand.

I wouldn't doubt Ted either, except that my email was pretty long, so my sound preferences might have been lost in translation. Seems like most folks prefer a Jensen clone in their BF/SF amps, but most folks are also going for a different sound.

I replied by asking him to compare the 12F150 with the Cali, and this is what he said:
Quote:
warmer, breaks up at higher volumes, not as broad or smooth as the California. More of a vintage Fender tone.

I like warm (ie. not sterile or ice-pick-y), but don't need any extra break-up, and broad/smooth sound like reasonably good characteristics to me.
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meatandpotatas



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Location: The Great Northwest

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
6L6 amp such as Vibrolux or Twin Reverb might be the ticket.
I'm thinking it might be good to have one of each (6V6 vs. 6L6). I have a Vibrolux, which has good volume/headroom, but sounds pretty compressed, which may be the nature of 2x10's compared to 1x12. A Pro Reverb might be a good option, where the Twin is probably too much. The problem is that I have quite a bit invested in the Vibrolux, which would be hard to recoup. One thought is to replace the 10's with a 12, which would basically give me a 35watt/6L6 "big" Deluxe.

Either way, I think I'm committed to keeping to the DR, even if I need something a little bigger.
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Rick Towne



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Weber 12F150 Recommendation and Amp Heresy.... Reply with quote

I have used these in my 6L6 Allens (1x12 Old Flame and 2x12 Tone Savor) to great effect. The 1x12 is in a cabinet originally set up for 2x10's. Over the years, I had 3 '65 DR's, with stock Jensens and a Utah, 2 VR's, one water-damaged one into which I put a 12F150, 2 PR's, and 1 TR. The Webers worked much better than the stock speakers, and the amps themselves-versatile, dead quiet when properly serviced, etc-allowed me to sell everything else for much of my daughter's college expenses. I know this violates the all BFF-all the time-rule, but it works for me. I could never get the Fenders to achieve the no noise-no hum level I like. Re the tone, while ymmv, and I lose out on the vintage appeal, etc points (sorry Mur), they sound and work better for me, and have gotten various rave reviews, which counts more than the vintage appeal for me. They're also lighter than the comparable Fenders.

Bottom line: Get the Weber 12F150 for your DR, and perhaps set it up for 6L6's.
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Silverface



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 324
Location: Hermosa Beach CA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cal sounds great in a DR (with paper dust cap) once it's broken in - for the first month it sounds constipated, then finally blooms and sounds wonderful (if you can run a CD player through one for several days you'll really accelerate the break-in process). Mine has something I don't think Ted makes any longer, a special-order speaker; it's a California with a slightly lighter paper and magnet...more like a cross between JBL and a Greenback, with the punch of the JBL and warmth/mids of the Celestion. It's probably the best-sounding amp I have other than my Holland.

If you want the Don Rich sound you want a stock Cal with the aluminum cone. That has the bite and treble for that kind of tone; then load the amp with 6L6's, bias it around 18-20 ma and you'll have enough top end to scalp the entire first row of listeners! Another trick - get a 3-spring reverb tank. you don't need to turn the reverb up much, but a 3-spring tank (I think there's even a 4-spring available) sounds much more like the plate and other studio reverbs used in those days.
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Murr



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 384
Location: http://www.youtube.com/user/skydogz1

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Narrow panel Deluxe are awesome. Other than that, I'd skip the Deluxe idea.

If you play out, get a BF Vibrolux and be done with it.
'
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getbent



Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 116
Location: San Benito, CA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

meatandpotatas wrote:
Getbent, thanks for the reply...since you play that stuff out, do you think I can get away with just the Deluxe? I'm assuming that I would need to mic it or run it through a good extension cab for mid-size clubs or bigger, but that's just speculation. I'm not playing out right now, but trying to plan for the not-too-distant future while I have a little cash on hand.

I wouldn't doubt Ted either, except that my email was pretty long, so my sound preferences might have been lost in translation. Seems like most folks prefer a Jensen clone in their BF/SF amps, but most folks are also going for a different sound.

I replied by asking him to compare the 12F150 with the Cali, and this is what he said:
Quote:
warmer, breaks up at higher volumes, not as broad or smooth as the California. More of a vintage Fender tone.

I like warm (ie. not sterile or ice-pick-y), but don't need any extra break-up, and broad/smooth sound like reasonably good characteristics to me.


Hey, sorry for the delay! I just got home from playing a gig... I didn't take the twin tonight... I took my tone king imperial (20 watts of 6v6) it is pretty much two deluxes in one and a knob that adds some british flavor as well. It is plenty for my favorite bar!

As I posted above we do lots of Hag and Buck and old 50's and 60's country... but we do some 70's country too and rev it up a bit (hey man, I actually use my phase shifter! get down!) so, it has a cool 'tweedy' channel where I can get a little grind goin on...

I'd say, get the new speaker for your deluxe... I think jimmy wilsey (the Chris Isaak signature guitar sound guy) digs the JBL 130's... but I think Jim Sliff is a pretty smart dude and if he likes the paper cap calis'... go for it.

If you don't like it, let me know, I'm gonna probably buy some more soon...

my calis have the aluminum cap on my twin... of course, I found out 'after the fact' that it would make them more shrill.... but they have not posed a problem for me.... The amp sounds very good and I've gotten lots of compliments on it.... but, I don't doubt for a second that the paper cap is a better solution.. I was just ignorant and ordered what I wanted...

I'm an average player, so I probably don't squeeze every last tone out anyhoo... my goal is to make the bar owner smile, have some cougars smile and shimmy near me when I'm playing and get the steel player to say something to me other than "I like what you were attempting to do tonight"... (just kidding, but if you've played with steel players, you'll know what I mean.)

Anyway, good luck, you've got a great amp.... and if you decide you want a twin, they are always on craigslist. I paid 380 or 340 for mine (can't remember) less than a year ago...

I want a silver face vibrolux though or a pro... that would be a blast..

the hunt never ends for fun...
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meatandpotatas



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Location: The Great Northwest

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the replies. Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, and after exchanging a few emails with Ted, I'm going with the ceramic Cali w/paper dome.

I'm sure the Jensen-clone 12F150 is a great speaker, but my gut says Cali. Another interesting option is the NeoMag 12, which is supposed to be more JBL-like than the Cali, according to Ted, but he still recommended the Cali for me.

I'll hold off on any other amp-related moves until I get the DR back from the shop with new speaker installed. If the Deluxe has enough volume/headroom, I may trade my Vibrolux for something else. For some reason, I feel like I should have a Tweed to mess around with...

One last question for DR owners - how do you feel about the bright cap?

The 3-spring reverb sounds like an interesting option, but probably overkill for now. If I had the know-how to work on these things myself, I'd try a set of 6L6's, but at that point I may be better off with a Twin or Pro.
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Murr



Joined: 24 May 2008
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Location: http://www.youtube.com/user/skydogz1

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which Vibrolux do you have?
'
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meatandpotatas



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Location: The Great Northwest

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'74, blackfaced w/C10Ns - great amp, just not sure if it's the sound I'm looking for. I've been thinking about trading it on a Pro Reverb for more BF/SF headroom in a 2X12 package, or something in tweed for a completely different sound. Space and budget limitations only allow two amps for the time being...
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Murr



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 384
Location: http://www.youtube.com/user/skydogz1

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vibrolux has plenty of headroom, especially with heavy-duty speakers ..and tons of tone. But maybe you're wanting something different, no matter what.
'
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meatandpotatas



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Location: The Great Northwest

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Vibrolux has plenty of headroom, especially with heavy-duty speakers ..and tons of tone.
Yes, it does. I'll wait until the DR comes back before making any decisions, and might well keep the VR forever. The only drawback is that it sounds a little tighter/compressed next to the DR, which I attribute to 10's vs. 12's (could be wrong?). Great sound for a lot of stuff (think Nashville West), but side-by-side I usually prefer the DR with it's more open-sounding 12.

Then again, I put a lot of $$$ in the Vibrolux to get it sounding right, which I would never recoup if I sold it, and it's still a hell of an amp in its own right.
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meatandpotatas



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Location: The Great Northwest

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just played an original BF Vibroverb today. Holy smokes, what an amp... I don't know how the reissues compare, but may have to consider one if the Vibrolux goes.
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