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Pro Reverb Question

 
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Bill Hisle



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 106
Location: East Oz

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:30 pm    Post subject: Pro Reverb Question Reply with quote

Do any of you guys have any experience with a Pro Reverb. Is the Pro basically a 40 watt Twin? It appears to me that the channel configurations are the same, just lower watts.

(What I'm looking for is Twin tone at a lower volume and considering trying a Pro.)
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Brian



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 1360
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played one at GC once and loved it. The 2x12's were real full and lush sounding. I thought of it as a Vibrolux with 2x12's but you could consider it a lower power twin I guess too. I think Silverface has one.
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rballister



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 174
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm the original owner of a 67 Blackface Pro. (plenty loud) Also, defying the laws of physics, it seems to have gotten a lot heavier to move around over the last 40 years.
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Silverface



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 324
Location: Hermosa Beach CA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a '69 drip-edge and IMO it simply blows Twins out of the water. It's nearly as loud (only about 3db difference in volume) but MUCH warmer sounding - meaning you can drop the volume back without the tone going to crap. A Twin is fine if you like thin tones at low volume, really LOUD clean tones, and very dry mid-volume sounds...but IMO they are simply outdated and "too much amp" for most applications.

A Pro you can crank up a bit without it drilling a hole in your forehead with treble, and has a smooth, warm, round tone (of course speakers make a huge difference - stay away from reissue "Jensens" at all costs.)

Twins were popular when lots of stage power was necessary. That's rarely the case nowadays. Unless you need a lot of clean headroom at high volume, a Twin is overkill.

The Pro Reverb is a FAR better and more versatile amp IMO. I have a few "untouchable" amps - the Pro Reverb, '64 Vibroverb Custom, Holland Little Jimi, '55 Deluxe and '64 Champ. I sold my Twin years ago, and it was a REALLY good one - but just too much power and terrible sound at low volume.

If you find a good deal on one that's stock grab it. Have it properly serviced (cap job if it hasn't had one, tubes replaced (or at least a bias check/reset), sockets and jacks cleaned, and play it.
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Bill Hisle



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 106
Location: East Oz

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the help. Much appreciated Jim! Just what I needed to know.
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STEELEFT1



Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 44
Location: GRAYSON GA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just purchased a 1973 Pro Reverb. It is a little worn, but looks to be functional, and stock. It has a tail logo on it, and I thought they were gone by 73 (?) The original speakers are gone, but they were probably Utah's anyway which I do not care for.
I wanted a low wattage self contained Fender to use with my Tele's that I can crank a bit. I have read good things about the Pro reverb. A different animal that my 1-15 Fender tweed pro. I would eventually like to put a pair of the Weber californias in it, as they are my new favorite. I have a pair of JBL gray frame D120's reconed by Woody Woodell up in Nashville that I will load it up with. Can hardly wait.
Too many amps, too little time left on Earth.
Lefty
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Garth



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 67' blackface Pro Reverb and I loved it. (I traded it for a Rivera 212 Quiana -- also a great amp.) The Pro had an expressive clean tone until about 6, then it would break up very sweetly. Outside of the difference in wattage between the Pro Reverb and the Twin Reverb, the other big difference is in the circuitry of the two amps. The Pro Reverb has a AA165 circuit, while the Twin Reverb has a AB763 circuit. Not being an engineer, I am not sure how much difference this makes in the tone of the amp. But it is a difference. As with all things musical, the choice of amps basically comes down to individual preferences.

Garth
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Silverface



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 324
Location: Hermosa Beach CA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW the AA165 circuit as laid out in the Pro Reverb has none of the "dreaded" CBS changes. It's in reality a BF-type circuit, having been designed in '64. If you change about TWO caps, one in each input stage, it's an AB763 circuit. Same driver, same output tube voltages, same negative feedback, same bias circuit.

As the Pro Reverb didn't come out until '65 it wouldn't carry an AB763 tag (well, maybe - Fender DID do weird things to use up old parts - Leo wasted nothing!). I laugh when I see ads for BF Pro Reverbs that say "Pre-CBS", as NO 1965 amp can be "Pre-CBS" - so there are BF Pro Reverbs, but no Pre-CBS Pro Reverbs.

Confused yet? Wink

Then go to the 1968 drip-edge models, with 1968 being the CBS-era circuitry introduction year.

And I have too many amps - I screwed up on my own amp's date. It's a '68...except my '68 has a BF circuit.

It also has a "gray area" serial number - Greg Gagliano is the guy we all thank for the huge undertaking of developing a method to date Fender amps by serial number, but even he will readily admit the start/end dates for each year are NOT exact.

It's also well known in the tech circles that the drip-edge amps were first released in <i>mid 1967</i>, further confusing things.

One other technical note - a popular mod for Pro Reverbs is replacement of the OT with a Bassman OT. The stock one is pretty good, but it's the same one as in the Bandmaster, and just a little weak on the bottom end. A Bassman OT is much beefier. This used to mean some extra chassis holes (which mine has) but nowadays you can get an equivalent drop-in type from Mercury Magnetics that will significantly improve the definition, kick the mids a bit - and if you ever sell the amp just sell the stock OT with it!
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Rick Towne



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Pro Reverb Reply with quote

I agree with Silverface's assessment in all respects. I had several for years; the favorite purchased from Westwood Music in 1993. Probably my favorite of all the blackface reverb amps, and I had them all at one time or another. The PR was much warmer than the Twin and "bigger" than the Vibrolux. My 2x12 Allen Tone Savor is now set up as a PR with only 2 6L6's and is perfect; quieter than the PR and with a fuller tone at lower volumes (i.e. 1-2 on the MV).
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Raybob



Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 98
Location: Kyburz, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been building clones of the Fender black face amps and recently built a Pro Reverb for a player in Houston. It's probably my favorite combo I've done. It was close to 20 pounds lighter than a Twin because of smaller transformers and speakers didn't have to be so high rated as Twin. Plenty of power for any situation I could think of. Other than power, the only real difference from a twin is not having a middle control knobs.

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Rick Towne



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:50 pm    Post subject: Great looking amp, although... Reply with quote

it reminds me of my maple cab/JBL120 Jim Kelley; too heavy to carry. What kind of cabinet?

In addition, one of the reasons I like my Allen is because it doesn't have the unnecessary historical features of the Fender BF era. I don't need two channels that are out of phase with each other (or at all) and I do appreciate the added mid and raw control that the Allen has; very helpful for low volume situations where a Pro doesn't work. I do wish it had a trem.
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Raybob



Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 98
Location: Kyburz, CA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Great looking amp, although... Reply with quote

Rick Towne wrote:
it reminds me of my maple cab/JBL120 Jim Kelley; too heavy to carry. What kind of cabinet?

In addition, one of the reasons I like my Allen is because it doesn't have the unnecessary historical features of the Fender BF era. I don't need two channels that are out of phase with each other (or at all) and I do appreciate the added mid and raw control that the Allen has; very helpful for low volume situations where a Pro doesn't work. I do wish it had a trem.


The cabinet is pine plywood by thecabguy.com who does Allen's cabinets too. He won't do any more finished pine, only tolex covered or raw but I have a local cabinet man that can do the finishes.

The two channels can be put in phase easily enough by a simple mod that puts reverb and tremolo on both channels. My amps have something similar to Allen's raw control on a foot switch called "mid boost". Adding mid controls would be easy as well as the chassis is actually a twin chassis with a PT adapter I fabricate.
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Rick Towne



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:52 pm    Post subject: Raybob... Reply with quote

Send me a PM with some pricing information. This sounds interesting.
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